The Iron Maiden
Bootleg Master List thread!

1981 German Shows

This is an archive of the thread we had on the official Iron Maiden bulletin board trade section.
Where we worked on verifying concert dates and weather or not a boot actually existed of the show.
It is meant to be used as a reference tool. Anyone can feel free to save any use any part of this that they wish.

Part 1
pages 1-10 of the thread		 Part 2
pages 11-25 of the thread		 Part 3
pages 26-41 of the thread		 MASTER LIST
courtesy of Ryan
1981 German shows
4 pages fleshing out
which are which .		 Back to my site
my trading pages		 Other
other posts of interest
Unsurfaced Iron Maiden Audio Recordings.
A listing of all the shows that do not have an audio recording in circulation yet.
toxik666
Urgent plea for Stuttgart 15/08/81 show
Apparently this one is often mistraded as Nurenburg or Frankfurt?

Crucially it's running time is 44:30

Desperate to get hold of a copy of this.

Willing to trade if you want to pm me with your email for a list. Will also 2:1, or 2:1 b and p or whatever if anyone can help?

Thanks in advance
darthrya
Why the rush to get this show?

My version is 36:50. http://maidenshows.ryasrealm.com/810815.htm If there is a longer version than that, I'd be surprised. My Nuremburg (the next day) is 44:35. Did you mean that one?
tay666
I think you have them reversed Ryan
darthrya
Trevor, how do you now for sure? I got mine from Dejan just like this, and I can't find anything in the dialog to tell me different (or to prove to me that what I assume is correct either)

Just to let you know, my "Nuremburg" isn't a great recording, but it is a far superior recording to my "Stuttgart."

Just before Iron Maiden, Paul thanks the bands on the festival in my "Stuttgart."

tay666
Ryan, here is what we sorted out in that thread a couple years ago with Robert
________________________________________________
Stuttgart, Camstadter Wasen, Germany, 1981.08.15
13 tracks
Ides Of March, Sanctuary, Wrathchild, Killers, Remember Tomorrow, Another Life, Clive Burr - solo, Another Life - Pt. 2, Innocent Exile, Running Free, Murders In The Rue Morgue, Phantom Of The Opera & Iron Maiden.

Nuremberg, Zeppelinfield, Germany, 1981.08.16
9 tracks
Wrathchild, Killers, Remember Tomorrow, Another Life, Innocent Exile, Running Free, Murders In The Rue Morgue, Phantom Of The Opera & Iron Maiden

Darmstadt, Stadion Böllenfalltor, Germany, 1981.08.23
14 tracks
Ides Of March, Sanctuary, Wrathchild, Killers, Remember Tomorrow, Another Life, Clive Burr - solo, Innocent Exile, Running Free, Murders In The Rue Morgue, Phantom Of The Opera, Iron Maiden, Drifter & Prowler
__________________________________________________ ____

Here is what mine have
8/15/81 - 11 tracks 44.30
8/16/81 - 7 tracks 36.57
8/16/81 - 9 tracks 36.44
8/23/81 - 13 tracks 59.17

(thought my track counts don't look right, I do have the same number of songs as what Robert has, just my discs are tracked differently)
darthrya
So, the "proof" is just the legacy factor? Just curious. I guess Dejan either accidentally switched the two when he sent them to me, or he has them listed wrong too.
ead666
My version of Stuttgart is about 36'57, and has 9 tracks.
Paul says at the end of the last song (Iron Maiden) : "Stuttgart, thanx you"
darthrya
Are you sure he says Stuttgart? My copy is so poor that I can't tell if he is saying Stuttgart or just "thank you" a few times. Can you give us some exact, distinctive dialogue Paul says between tracks and where he says it (between which songs)? I'd like to know which show of mine is which.
Navigator
I have listed:
Stuttgart 15 Aug 1981 36:48
Nuremburg 16 Aug 1981 44:33
Darmstad 23 Aug 1981 59:21
darthrya
This is all the more reason why I never rely on exact times for shows - all three of these shows that I have came from you, yet mine are all 2 seconds longer. I have said for years that many programs out there do not burn an exact copy.

Of course, huge discrepencies in the times tell us quite a bit, hence their value in listing them on sites
Navigator
This is just getting more and more confusing. I guess we can all agree that Darmstad is correct but with Nuremburg/Frankfurt or Stuttgart I have no idea anymore.
There was another version of Stuttgart 5 Aug 1981 but I guess that was just mistraded version of 15 Aug 1981 but again looking at Steven’s site time is different 34:59!?
tay666

Seb - I think we need to trade.
Here is what you list on your site
1981-08-15 Stuttgart Germany Camstadter Wasen Sunrise Festival AUD 34:57
1981-08-16 Nuremberg Germany Zeppelinfield Version 2 : known as 1981-08-05 Stuttgart ... but it is a fake and a bad version of Nuremberg) AUD 34:57

Note that the disc times are identical.
Either you don't actually have the Stuttgart show, or you forgot to update the disc time when you replaced the fake one
Originally Posted by darthrya So, the "proof" is just the legacy factor?

tay666
Pretty much, yeah.
Just the legacy of the tapes that Robert got back in 82/83.

As to time discrepancies between traders.
I don't think it is so much that programs burn them differently, I think it is more that different CD readers read them slightly differently.
I'll bet that if I read the disc time of a disc, then send that disc to you, your drive will read the disc time slightly differently.
Also, I am sure, we all use differnet software as well to play our CDs, so that is also a factor.

Disc times are valuable though in differentiating versions. Especially when things are off by minutes.
(though that opens a whole new can of worms. As some shows are from the same original source but one has a tape recorder that is slower or faster somewhere in it's lineage from the tape trading days.
As a matter of fact, Sebatien has a show in his list that has the exact same setlist as mine, but his is almost a minute and a half longer. Eventually I will get it from him as mine plays a bit fast, and I am betting his plays closer to normal speed)

tay666
With these 2, there is a distinct quality difference to go along with the slight time difference.
08/16/81 nurenberg known as Frankfurt '81 36.57 decent sound. a little on the quite side though
08/16/81 nurenberg known as stuttgart 8/5 36.44 bassy. hard to hear volume fluctuates. a little too fast

Also, another way to tell. Both versions of nurenberg are missing the drum solo. Stuttgart and Darmistadt both have a drum solo.
And Darmistadt is the only one what has Drifter and Prowler at the end.

So you can go by that to identify which shows are which.
ead666
Thanx to have noticed this Trevor.
In fact, i have checked and listened more carefully these 3 boots on my list :

1981-08-15 Stuttgart Germany Camstadter Wasen Sunrise Festival AUD 34:57
1981-08-16 Nuremberg Germany Zeppelinfield Version 1 : Sunrise Festival AUD 36:56
1981-08-16 Nuremberg Germany Zeppelinfield Version 2 : known as 1981-08-05 Stuttgart ... but it is a fake and a bad version of Nuremberg) AUD 34:57

.. and they are the same ... and i am almost sure that these 3 gigs are from the Stuttgart gig ... Listen to carefully to the end of Iron Maiden, when the band thanx the public, you will hear Paul says "Stuttgart, thanx you".
About these 3 boots, the sound quality are not the same, and the 3rd is played too fast.

The question is : is the gig you mentionned as Stuttgart (44'30) really Stuttgart or Nuremberg ??
Could you check what Paul says at the end of Iron Maiden ?

Very confusing these german gigs !!
toxik666
Thanks all, yes it is damn confusing hence why I added the known as bit at the end of the post. I know I need the 44:30 show hence why I put the time as I have 34:57 (crap sound too fast) and 36:57 which are indeed the same gig.

At least if I get the 44:30 I know I'll have both shows even if we are not sure which is which.

In answer to your question Ryan, I need it urgent to finish my Killers tour off as I love Dianno era Maiden and Killers is my fave Maiden album.

Tay - I am just about to email you regarding the shows, cheers
Originally Posted by toxik666 I've enhanced the recording by giving it more volume and slowed it down as it was too fast here is the result. I've just mailed it to you Ryan as I couldn't upload it here.

darthrya
You're right. He says Stuttgart. Thanks for sharing that. That was the 30-something minute recording, right? If so, that matches exactly what Dejan and I have - Stuttgart is the short recording, and Nuremburg is the 40-something minute recording.
tay666
Ok, I'm checking them now.
I guess you are right, that could be stuttgart he says at the end of the show.

The darmstadt show, at the end, he might be saying "darmstadt, all right, did you have a fucking good time"
It's hard to tell, even after slowing it down as he really slurred things.

And the show that I thought was Stuttgart (which now appears to be Nurnburg by default) says nothing that I can find to narrow the location.
Though it is the best sounding one of the bunch.
darthrya
I couldn't tell if Paul was saying "Stuttgart" until Darren sent me a cleaned-up clip of the end. Then it was easier to hear. As for Nuremburg, I cannot find anything that settles it either.
darthrya
Well, at least this is another quality thread to add to the Master List thread to help others determine what show is truly what show.